Bringing Up Bates "The Bates Royal Wedding Celebration"
- “Our goal is for our children to be morally and spiritually and emotionally pure when they get married,” shares Gil. “We have chosen a route that we didn’t even know about when we were growing up. There’s a lot of names for it, dating with a purpose or courtship, but we don’t do the traditional dating.”
- Zach and Whitney relive their proposal: Zach surprised Whitney with a surprise trip to Florida, where he surprised her on the beach with flowers, a candlelight dinner, and, of course, a ring.
- Chad proposed to Erin under a gazebo after taking her on a ride through a park in a horse-drawn carriage. He pulled out a ring and popped the question: “Erin Elise, will you marry me?” They both cried and hugged. “Erin, she was the highlight of it all,” says Chad.
- The Paines also look back on their wedding, which was the first on both sides of the family. They show photos, although they don’t show scenes.
- After her engagement, Michael bravely allowed some of her brothers to tag along. Lawson and Nathan have different opinions when it comes to telling a lady how she looks. Lawson shares his: “If the girl ever comes up to you and says, ‘How does this look on me? What do you think?’ Wonderful, beautiful, perfect.” Nathan, on the other hand, says, “I’m an honest man. If it don’t look their best, I’ll just kind of say, ‘That’s not your best.’”
- John and Alyssa met at a mutual friend’s wedding after Alyssa got to know John’s brother on a mission trip to Romania. They fell in love while Alyssa, Tori, and Lawson were helping John’s dad campaign for Congress.
- Alyssa admits that she was extremely nervous for her wedding. “He’s going to raise another Alyssa,” she joked to her dad just before walking down the aisle. Afterwards, she described it as “absolutely blissful,” and told the camera that John cried quite a bit.
- “We’ve got a lot of excitement around, a lot of things happening, a lot of kids changing,” says Gil.
I would like to hear Gil and Kelly talk more about what they mean by wanting their children to remain emotionally pure. Would Zach and Nathan not be emotionally pure because they were in failed courtships? We heard Nathan tell Ashley he loved her. Would Carlin be emotionally impure if she and Evan ended their relationship now? What about teenage crushes? Certain urges are biologically natural and part of normal human development. I'm not saying one has to give into those urges, but they shouldn't feel guilty for having them. It would also be interesting to hear how they differentiate spiritual and moral purity, especially, if your morality comes from your religious/spiritual beliefs.
ReplyDeleteI understand wanting what you perceive is the best for your children, but Gil and Kelly expect their children to abide by standards they were unable to uphold when they were college age.
I know Gil ad Kelly always say the couples set their on boundaries and courting/engagement rules but I wonder if a couple decided it was ok to kiss, or not to have a chaperone, would that be allowed? I'm sure Gil and Kelly have taught all their kids that it is wrong to kiss before the wedding, but am wondering if a couple decided it was not wrong, what would be the reaction. And if one of the older ones in their late 20s decided they didn't need a chaperone, would that be allowed. Or would it be a situation where the parents said something like "as long as you are living under my roof, you'll do it my way", similar to wearing dresses.
DeleteI'm not sure what they meant by "emotional purity" but since neither Gil or Kelly was raised with a courting tradition I think it's unfair to say they "expect their children to abide by standards they were unable to uphold".
DeleteZach and Whitney kissed before marriage but they have stated they regret that and have told their younger siblings to NOT follow their lead. I assume they'll tell their children that too. Would they also be hypocrites who "expect their children to abide by standards they were unable to uphold"?
This idea that "if I ever made a mistake I am a hypocrite if I advise my kids not to make the same mistakes" basically means only perfect people can be effective parents.
I mean, if we take this to the logical conclusion, if a pagan who has multiple wives converts to Christianity and teaches his children "only have one wife", he'd be a hypocrite, too.
I agree in so many ways. But, in my opinion only, I believe emotionally pure is recognizing urges but squashing them them before fantasy kicks in.
DeleteI do like the Bates family. But, something that I've wondered about is they make a big deal about giving their daughters a purity ring and having that talk with them. Perhaps I missed somehting, but how do they approach this with the sons? Do they get a ring, too? The older Bates boys who remain single and not attending Crown College are off doing their own thing with music in Nashville or flying planes. Do they require a chaperone, or are they so dedicated to remaining pure that they don't need one? They are good-looking young guys and there's likely no shortage of adoring female fans that would be more than willing to share some heated moments with them. I would be very surprised if they've not had a few undisclosed romantic adventures.
DeleteI'd like to know the answer to this as well.
DeleteI like the Bates family as well, 7:58. The Bates sons have said that they follow the same rules as their sisters. However, they have a ton more freedom than the Bates girls and have more leeway on what types of clothing and pictures are acceptable. Again, I like Lawson and Nathan, but there are photographs of them that are not modest (by Bates standards or probably many people's standards). I was shocked when they posted the picture of them covered in mud.
DeleteIt is surprising how much freedom the Bates sons have in single life compared to the constant monitoring courting couples are under.
My understanding of emotionally pure is not going out with someone for the sake of it, aimlessly dating someone with it unlikely leading to anything long lasting thus, picking up unnecessary emotional baggage along the way.
DeleteI don't think they see Zach and Nathan as emotionally umpure, they didn't suddenly jump into their first relationships but as it progressed their hearts and purpose didn't entwine closer together.
Emotions come from the heart so I think they mean a pure heart, and a pure
spirit setting their minds on God.
11:41, Zach and Whitney would absolutely be hypocrites if they advocated a strict courtship model as the best form of relationship, said that they followed courtship rules, and then failed to disclose that they kissed before marriage. They were in a courtship and then kissed. It isn't a crime or a failure and they can tell their siblings or children whether they personally regret it or not. They have nothing to be ashamed about and I hope they have a lifetime of happiness.
DeleteAs for Kelly and Gil, they had the luxury of privacy and didn't have the pressure that courtship brings. I wonder if they would view courtship differently if they followed the rules for even a month.
Yeah, but it's also true that the single Bates guys are well into their mid-twenties, while most of the girls end up getting married between 19 and 23 (besides Michaela, who was an exception). Who knows how the Bates girls would be treated if they were still single in their mid- twenties?
DeleteNathan is 24 and Lawson is 25. Lawson has been pursuing his music career since the show began, when he was in his early 20s, and Nathan has also been able to leave the house to work as a flight instructor and other opportunities. They have been able to pursue adventures in their early 20s around the time that their sisters got married. I wonder if it is that the sons are afforded these opportunities while the girls are expected to get married?
DeleteSimilarly, the Bates sons do not garner as much criticism over what they wear as their sisters do.
It's a double standard when the Bates daughters are getting married in their late teens and early twenties and the men are in their mid to late twenties.
DeleteIt does appear that the unmarried sons have more freedom to go off and do their own thing. I wonder how it would work if one of the younger girls coming up decided to pursue a music career in Nashville, or go off to flight school and become a commercial pilot. Would she be encouraged and supported to pursue a secular career of interest, that would take her away from family or Crown College and put marriage on the back burner in the process?
DeleteThe boys just haven't found the right person yet. Nobody is forcing the girls into relationships.
DeleteJust by looking at the Bates women during their courtships, you can tell they are not forced into relationships. However, the normative age differences between when men and women marry in the Bates family and their social/religious circle is telling. Is it that the Bates men and spouses are given more time for individual pursuits? It goes beyond securing a job to support their wives with Nathan and Lawson. In earlier episodes of the show, Lawson even stated he wasn't interested in pursuing a relationship at the time and his full focus was on music. Would a Bates daughter be allowed to fully focus on her career away from home and in the same way as Lawson?
DeleteAlso, the way fans comment about age and unmarried Bateses and Duggars is different. People question why John David and Lawson have not courted and think it is time to settle down while continually saying poor Jana when one of her siblings gets married. It seems that men are given a longer time to find the right person.
If Nathan - Ashley had worked out, Nathan would have married at age 22. Same with Zach if his first courtship had led to marriage. And Michaela didn't marry until she was 25, as she was waiting for Brandon to (1) notice her and then (2) finish Bible school.
DeleteSo the only real outlier is Lawson, since he has stated he is focusing on his career above marriage.
I think there certainly is an overall expectation in the IBLP circles for young people to marry by around age 25 at the latest. As well as an expectation women will focus on families above career.
But there's a big difference between something being socially expected and being "required". It will be very interesting is Katie is allowed to go off the beaten path and go away from home for nursing school. Though since she is only 17 she still might wind up married in her early 20s even if she does do that.
Be pure is zo much different for a woman than for a men!
DeleteOh such lovely moments captured for them. I like seeing the different guys proposals.
ReplyDeleteI admit to being disappointed in this episode. I looked forward to seeing much more of Alyssa's and Zach's wedding. Zach's proposal was shown but none of his wedding. And there was only about a minute of Alyssa's. My cable guide indicated this was to be an hour long episode but the second half hour was all bout new shows. I'd much rather seen more of the other weddings instead of a repeat of Tori dress shopping which we just recently saw.
ReplyDeleteMe too, but not very surprised as much of the rights to the footage is owned by other TV networks. Erin's wedding was on 19KAC on TLC, and Alyssa's wedding was shown on ABC. I don't even think Zach and Whitney's wedding was ever televised though I was disappointed there wasn't even "home video" type footage available.
DeleteIt is more annoying that UP is marketing "hour" long episodes that aren't. They also marketed "90 minute" episodes that weren't, the last 30 minutes were taken up by another show.
Zach’s wedding wasn’t shown because it wasn’t filmed. There’s nothing the producers of the show can do about that....
DeleteI totally agree, Kathy. My TV Guide said the same thing.I was very disappointed that it was so short. I wish they would've shown some more of Zach and Whitney. plus they showed Josie and Kelton in the preview if I'm not mistaken. I wish it would have shown courtship updates as was indicated in the previews.
DeleteJosh Duggar took video footage at Zach's wedding. It was in Kelly's old blog before they had a show. Someone asked if it would be shown on 19 kids like Erin's. Kelly said TLC didn't film it probably bc of the close timing to Erin's wedding. She said that Josh Duggar did some recording though.
DeleteI'm disappointed that the show was only 30 minutes; I feel like there was a lot more of the earlier weddings that they could have shown. I do think Kelly was a beautiful mother of the bride in all of the weddings (and of course all the brides were gorgeous).
ReplyDeleteTime 1;02pm
ReplyDeleteCool recap worst part I read was when Nathan said you dont look your best when the talk was about girls.
It was funny though when Lawson told him "you're going to be single for the rest of your life"!
DeleteExactly! lol Though I don't think so, if he finds a girl that wants the honest truth he'd be set
DeleteThey would get his opinion rather than the honest truth. What Nathan likes or dislikes is not objective fact.
DeleteHi Ellie! Do you think you could do a post of all the married Bates kids' vows like you did for the Duggars a while back? Pretty please!? :)
ReplyDeleteNice memories watched the show loved the recap thanks guys
ReplyDeleteI watched the real Royal wedding between Prince Harry and Meagan Markel and there was more about God and his purpose for marriage than I've ever seen during a Bates or Duggar wedding. Note to TLC and UP: Do not be afraid to have religious content in your show about these families. That is WHY they are on TV in the first place...to share their ministry.
ReplyDeleteOoops, Meghan Markle. I spelled it incorrectly above
ReplyDeleteWhat is up with Nathan insulting women? First he said women think they know what looks good but they don’t and need a male opinion. Then when Michael came out in one dress he said it looked like a grandma. As Lawson tried to tell him it was wrong to insult a woman’s appearance he said if a girl asked him how she looked he would tell her she looked bad and had looked better in the past. And let’s not forget how much he insulted Tori’s wedding hair because according to him brides look bad with their hair up. I doubt Kelly and Gil would want their daughters to be with a man who spoke to them like that so I don’t get why this behavior hasn’t been corrected. And Gil would never speak to or about Kelly like that. I loved when Lawson gave up on trying to explain to Nathan how he was wrong and told him to stay single.
ReplyDeleteNathan comes off as rather immature for his age and still in the "little boy teasing little girls" stage of life and really not ready to get married, so it's probabaly best he remain single for now.
DeleteThough on the other hand I have met a married couple where the husband did say things like that to his wife and she just laughed it off as him being a tease. So it's possible Nathan will eventually find a woman who takes him as he is.